God and his beloved son The 666 did their best to help Senator John Kerry to win the
American presidential elections on November 2, 2004. (October 18, 2004, Stockholm, Sweden).
The 666´s mystical help to Senator John Kerry to win the American presidential elections on November 2, 2004
and the Third Presidential Candidate’s Debate in
EXTRA! - EXTRA!
On October 27, 2004
in Iowa, USA
God illuminated the Mind of hundreds of
people to claim Senator John Kerry finishing a speech, waving signs with the number
six on them.
The signs was part of a final-week campaign countdown, and read
“6 More Days To a Fresh Start”
Illuminated by God
Senator John Kerry appears with six fingers in the air
Reminding supporters that on Election Day -on 6 days-
President George W. Bush will be defeated.
Nobody can deny now
The 666`s help and support with his Greats Mystical Powers
To
Senator John Kerry
To wins the American presidential elections on November 2, 2004.
The 666´s mystical help to Senator John Kerry to win the Third Presidential Candidate´s Debate on
October 13, 2004.
Commission on Presidential Debates - Debate Transcript
THIRD PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES' DEBATE ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY, TEMPE, ARIZONA SPEAKERS: GEORGE
W. BUSHPRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATESU. S. SENATOR JOHN F. KERRY (MA)DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL
NOMINEE BOB SCHIEFFERCBS ANCHOR SCHIEFFER:
As David defeated Goliath, the beloved Son of God The 666, could not help to defeat President
George W. Bush in the American presidential elections on November 2, 2004.
Good evening from Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona. I'm Bob Schieffer of CBS News. I
want to welcome you to the third and last of the 2004 debates between President George Bush and
Senator John Kerry. As Jim Lehrer told you before the first one, these debates are sponsored by
the Commission on Presidential Debates. Tonight the topic will be domestic affairs, but the
format will be the same as that first debate. I'll moderate our discussion under detailed rules
agreed to by the candidates, but the questions and the areas to be covered were chosen by me.
I have not told the candidates or anyone else what they are. To refresh your memory on the rules,
I will ask a question. The candidate is allowed two minutes to answer. His opponent then has a
minute and a half to offer a rebuttal. At my discretion, I can extend the discussion by offering
each candidate an additional 30 seconds. A green light will come on to signal the candidate has
30 seconds left. A yellow light signals 15 seconds left. A red light means five seconds left.
There is also a buzzer, if it is needed. The candidates may not question each other directly.
There are no opening statements, but there will be two-minute closing statements. There is an
audience here tonight, but they have agreed to remain silent, except for right now, when they
join me in welcoming President George Bush and Senator John Kerry. (APPLAUSE) Gentlemen, welcome
to you both. By coin toss, the first question goes to Senator Kerry. Senator, I want to set
the stage for this discussion by asking the question that I think hangs over all of our politics
today and is probably on the minds of many people watching this debate tonight.
And that is, will our children and grandchildren ever live in a world as safe and secure as the
world in which we grew up?
KERRY:
Well, first of all, Bob, thank you for moderating tonight. Thank you, Arizona
State, for welcoming us. And thank you to the Presidential Commission for undertaking this
enormous task. We're proud to be here. Mr. President, I'm glad to be here with you again to
share similarities and differences with the American people. Will we ever be safe and secure
again? Yes. We absolutely must be. That's the goal. Now, how do we achieve it is the most
critical component of it. I believe that this president, regrettably, rushed us into a war,
made decisions about foreign policy, pushed alliances away. And, as a result, America is now
bearing this extraordinary burden where we are not as safe as we ought to be.
The measurement is not: Are we safer? The measurement is: Are we as safe as we ought to be? And
there are a host of options that this president had available to him, like making sure that at
all our ports in America containers are inspected. Only 95 percent of them -- 95 percent come in
today uninspected. That's not good enough. People who fly on airplanes today, the cargo hold is
not X-rayed, but the baggage is. That's not good enough. Firehouses don't have enough
firefighters in them. Police officers are being cut from the streets of America because the
president decided to cut the COPS program.
So we can do a better job of homeland security. I can do a better job of waging a smarter, more
effective war on terror and guarantee that we will go after the terrorists. I will hunt them
down, and we'll kill them, we'll capture them. We'll do whatever is necessary to be safe. But I
pledge this to you, America: I will do it in the way that Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan
and John Kennedy and others did, where we build the strongest alliances, where the world joins
together, where we have the best intelligence and where we are able, ultimately, to be more safe
and secure.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, you have 90 seconds.
BUSH: Thank you very much. I want to thank Arizona State as well. Yes, we can be safe and secure,
if we stay on the offense against the terrorists and if we spread freedom and liberty around the
world. I have got a comprehensive strategy to not only chase down the Al Qaida, wherever it
exists -- and we're making progress; three-quarters of Al Qaida leaders have been brought to
justice -- but to make sure that countries that harbor terrorists are held to account. As a
result of securing ourselves and ridding the Taliban out of Afghanistan, the Afghan people had
elections this weekend. And the first voter was a 19-year-old woman. Think about that. Freedom
is on the march. We held to account a terrorist regime in Saddam Hussein. In other words, in
order to make sure we're secure, there must be a comprehensive plan.
My opponent just this weekend talked about how terrorism could be reduced to a nuisance,
comparing it to prostitution, illegal gambling. I think that attitude and that point of view is
dangerous. I don't think you can secure America for the long run if you don't have a
comprehensive view as to how to defeat these people. At home, we'll do everything we can to
protect the homeland. I signed the homeland security bill to better align our assets and
resources. My opponent voted against it. We're doing everything we can to protect our borders
and ports. But absolutely we can be secure in the long run. It just takes good, strong
leadership.
God and his beloved son The 666 illuminated the best of the American people to elect Senator John Kerry
in the American presidential elections on November 2, 2004.
SCHIEFFER: Anything to add, Senator Kerry?
KERRY: Yes. When the president had an opportunity to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, he took
his focus off of them, outsourced the job to Afghan warlords, and Osama bin Laden escaped.
Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked,
"Where is Osama bin Laden? " He said, "I don't know. I don't really think about him very much.
I'm not that concerned. " We need a president who stays deadly focused on the real war on
terror.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President?
BUSH: Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of
one of those exaggerations. Of course we're worried about Osama bin Laden. We're on the hunt
after Osama bin Laden. We're using every asset at our disposal to get Osama bin Laden. My
opponent said this war is a matter of intelligence and law enforcement. No, this war is a matter
of using every asset at our disposal to keep the American people protected.
SCHIEFFER: New question, Mr. President, to you. We are talking about protecting ourselves from
the unexpected, but the flu season is suddenly upon us. Flu kills thousands of people every
year. Suddenly we find ourselves with a severe shortage of flu vaccine. How did that happen?
BUSH: Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for
the United States citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was
contaminated. And so we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into our
country. We're working with Canada to hopefully -- that they'll produce a -- help us realize
the vaccine necessary to make sure our citizens have got flu vaccinations during this upcoming
season.
My call to our fellow Americans is if you're healthy, if you're younger, don't get a flu shot
this year. Help us prioritize those who need to get the flu shot, the elderly and the young.
The CDC, responsible for health in the United States, is setting those priorities and is
allocating the flu vaccine accordingly. I haven't gotten a flu shot, and I don't intend to
because I want to make sure those who are most vulnerable get treated. We have a problem with
litigation in the United States of America.
Vaccine manufacturers are worried about getting sued, and therefore they have backed off from
providing this kind of vaccine. One of the reasons I'm such a strong believer in legal reform
is so that people aren't afraid of producing a product that is necessary for the health of our
citizens and then end up getting sued in a court of law. But the best thing we can do now, Bob,
given the circumstances with the company in England is for those of us who are younger and
healthy, don't get a flu shot.
SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry?
KERRY: This really underscores the problem with the American health-care system. It's not
working for the American family. And it's gotten worse under President Bush over the course of
the last years. Five million Americans have lost their health insurance in this country.
You've got about a million right here in Arizona, just shy, 950,000, who have no health
insurance at all. 82,000 Arizonians lost their health insurance under President Bush's watch.
223,000 kids in Arizona have no health insurance at all. All across our country -- go to Ohio,
1. 4 million Ohioans have no health insurance, 114,000 of them lost it under President Bush;
Wisconsin, 82,000 Wisconsinites lost it under President Bush.
This president has turned his back on the wellness of America. And there is no system. In fact,
it's starting to fall apart not because of lawsuits -- though they are a problem, and John
Edwards and I are committed to fixing them -- but because of the larger issue that we don't
cover Americans. Children across our country don't have health care. We're the richest country
on the face of the planet, the only industrialized nation in the world not to do it. I have a
plan to cover all Americans. We're going to make it affordable and accessible. We're going to
let everybody buy into the same health-care plan senators and congressmen give themselves.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, would you like to add something?
BUSH: I would. Thank you. I want to remind people listening tonight that a plan is not a litany
of complaints, and a plan is not to lay out programs that you can't pay for. He just said he
wants everybody to be able to buy in to the same plan that senators and congressmen get. That
costs the government $7,700 per family. If every family in America signed up, like the senator
suggested, if would cost us $5 trillion over 10 years. It's an empty promise. It's called bait
and switch.
SCHIEFFER: Time's up. BUSH: Thank you.
KERRY: Actually, it's not an empty promise. It's really interesting, because the president used
that very plan as a reason for seniors to accept his prescription drug plan. He said, if it's
good enough for the congressmen and senators to have choice, seniors ought to have choice. What
we do is we have choice. I choose Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Other senators, other congressmen
choose other programs. But the fact is, we're going to help Americans be able to buy into it.
Those that can afford it are going to buy in themselves. We're not giving this away for
nothing.
SCHIEFFER: All right. Senator Kerry, a new question. Let's talk about economic security. You
pledged during the last debate that you would not raise taxes on those making less than
$200,000 a year. But the price of everything is going up, and we all know it. Health-care
costs, as you are talking about, is skyrocketing, the cost of the war.
President George W. Bush and his Administration will harvest what they sow in
The world.
My question is, how can you or any president, whoever is elected next time, keep that pledge
without running this country deeper into debt and passing on more of the bills that we're
running up to our children? KERRY: I'll tell you exactly how I can do it: by reinstating what
President Bush took away, which is called pay as you go. During the 1990s, we had pay-as-you-go
rules. If you were going to pass something in the Congress, you had to show where you are going
to pay for it and how. President Bush has taken -- he's the only president in history to do this.
He's also the only president in 72 years to lose jobs -- 1. 6 million jobs lost.
He's the only president to have incomes of families go down for the last three years; the only
president to see exports go down; the only president to see the lowest level of business
investment in our country as it is today. Now, I'm going to reverse that. I'm going to change
that. We're going to restore the fiscal discipline we had in the 1990s. Every plan that I have
laid out -- my health-care plan, my plan for education, my plan for kids to be able to get better
college loans -- I've shown exactly how I'm going to pay for those. And we start -- we don't do
it exclusively -- but we start by rolling back George Bush's unaffordable tax cut for the
wealthiest people, people earning more than $200,000 a year, and we pass, hopefully, the
McCain-Kerry Commission which identified some $60 billion that we can get.
We shut the loophole which has American workers actually subsidizing the loss of their own job.
They just passed an expansion of that loophole in the last few days: $43 billion of giveaways,
including favors to the oil and gas industry and the people importing ceiling fans from China.
I'm going to stand up and fight for the American worker. And I am going to do it in a way
that's fiscally sound. I show how I pay for the health care, how we pay for the education. I
have a manufacturing jobs credit. We pay for it by shutting that loophole overseas. We raise
the student loans. I pay for it by changing the relationship with the banks. This president has
never once vetoed one bill; the first president in a hundred years not to do that.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President?
BUSH: Well, his rhetoric doesn't match his record. He been a senator for 20 years. He voted to
increase taxes 98 times. When they tried to reduce taxes, he voted against that 127 times. He
talks about being a fiscal conservative, or fiscally sound, but he voted over -- he voted 277
times to waive the budget caps, which would have cost the taxpayers $4. 2 trillion. He talks
about PAYGO. I'll tell you what PAYGO means, when you're a senator from Massachusetts, when
you're a colleague of Ted Kennedy, pay go means: You pay, and he goes ahead and spends.
He's proposed $2. 2 trillion of new spending, and yet the so-called tax on the rich, which is
also a tax on many small-business owners in America, raises $600 million by our account --
billion, $800 billion by his account. There is a tax gap. And guess who usually ends up filling
the tax gap? The middle class. I propose a detailed budget, Bob. I sent up my budget man to the
Congress, and he says, here's how we're going to reduce the deficit in half by five years. It
requires pro-growth policies that grow our economy and fiscal sanity in the halls of Congress.
SCHIEFFER: Let's go to a new question, Mr. President. Two minutes. And let's continue on jobs.
You know, there are all kind of statistics out there, but I want to bring it down to an
individual. Mr. President, what do you say to someone in this country who has lost his job to
someone overseas who's being paid a fraction of what that job paid here in the United States?
President George W. Bush Administration is a wrecked ship today in the
world.
BUSH: I'd say, Bob, I've got policies to continue to grow our economy and create the jobs of
the 21st century. And here's some help for you to go get an education. Here's some help for you
to go to a community college. We've expanded trade adjustment assistance. We want to help pay
for you to gain the skills necessary to fill the jobs of the 21st century. You know, there's a
lot of talk about how to keep the economy growing. We talk about fiscal matters. But perhaps the
best way to keep jobs here in America and to keep this economy growing is to make sure our
education system works. I went to Washington to solve problems. And I saw a problem in the
public education system in America. They were just shuffling too many kids through the system,
year after year, grade after grade, without learning the basics.
And so we said: Let's raise the standards. We're spending more money, but let's raise the
standards and measure early and solve problems now, before it's too late. No, education is how
to help the person who's lost a job. Education is how to make sure we've got a workforce that's
productive and competitive. Got four more years, I've got more to do to continue to raise
standards, to continue to reward teachers and school districts that are working, to emphasize
math and science in the classrooms, to continue to expand Pell Grants to make sure that people
have an opportunity to start their career with a college diploma. And so the person you talked
to, I say, here's some help, here's some trade adjustment assistance money for you to go a
community college in your neighborhood, a community college which is providing the skills
necessary to fill the jobs of the 21st century.And that's what I would say to that person.
SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry?
KERRY: I want you to notice how the president switched away from jobs and started talking about
education principally. Let me come back in one moment to that, but I want to speak for a second,
if I can, to what the president said about fiscal responsibility. Being lectured by the
president on fiscal responsibility is a little bit like Tony Soprano talking to me about law
and order in this country. (LAUGHTER)
This president has taken a $5. 6 trillion surplus and turned it into deficits as far as the eye
can see. Health-care costs for the average American have gone up 64 percent; tuitions have gone
up 35 percent; gasoline prices up 30 percent; Medicare premiums went up 17 percent a few days
ago; prescription drugs are up 12 percent a year. But guess what, America? The wages of
Americans have gone down. The jobs that are being created in Arizona right now are paying about
$13,700 less than the jobs that we're losing. And the president just walks on by this problem.
The fact is that he's cut job-training money. $1 billion was cut. They only added a little bit
back this year because it's an election year. They've cut the Pell Grants and the Perkins loans
to help kids be able to go to college. They've cut the training money. They've wound up not even
extending unemployment benefits and not even extending health care to those people who are
unemployed. I'm going to do those things, because that's what's right in America: Help workers
to transition in every respect.
SCHIEFFER: New question to you, Senator Kerry, two minutes. And it's still on jobs. You know,
many experts say that a president really doesn't have much control over jobs. For example, if
someone invents a machine that does the work of five people, that's progress. That's not the
president's fault. So I ask you, is it fair to blame the administration entirely for this loss
of jobs?
KERRY: I don't blame them entirely for it. I blame the president for the things the
president could do that has an impact on it. Outsourcing is going to happen. I've acknowledged
that in union halls across the country. I've had shop stewards stand up and say, "Will you
promise me you're going to stop all this outsourcing? "And I've looked them in the eye and I've
said, "No, I can't do that. " What I can promise you is that I will make the playing field as
fair as possible, that I will, for instance, make certain that with respect to the tax system
that you as a worker in America are not subsidizing the loss of your job.
Today, if you're an American business, you actually get a benefit for going overseas. You get
to defer your taxes. So if you're looking at a competitive world, you say to yourself, "Hey, I
do better overseas than I do here in America. " That's not smart. I don't want American workers
subsidizing the loss of their own job. And when I'm president, we're going to shut that
loophole in a nanosecond and we're going to use that money to lower corporate tax rates in
America for all corporations, 5 percent. And we're going to have a manufacturing jobs credit
and a job hiring credit so we actually help people be able to hire here.
The second thing that we can do is provide a fair trade playing field. This president didn't
stand up for Boeing when Airbus was violating international rules and subsidies. He discovered
Boeing during the course of this campaign after I'd been talking about it for months. The fact
is that the president had an opportunity to stand up and take on China for currency manipulation.
There are companies that wanted to petition the administration.
They were told: Don't even bother; we're not going to listen to it. The fact is that there have
been markets shut to us that we haven't stood up and fought for. I'm going to fight for a fair
trade playing field for the American worker. And I will fight for the American worker just as
hard as I fight for my own job. That's what the American worker wants. And if we do that, we
can have an impact. Plus, we need fiscal discipline. Restore fiscal discipline, we'll do a lot
better.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President?
BUSH: Whew! Let me start with the Pell Grants. In his last litany of misstatements. He said we
cut Pell Grants. We've increased Pell Grants by a million students. That's a fact. You know,
he talks to the workers. Let me talk to the workers. You've got more money in your pocket as a
result of the tax relief we passed and he opposed. If you have a child, you got a $1,000 child
credit. That's money in your pocket. If you're married, we reduced the marriage penalty. The
code ought to encourage marriage, not discourage marriage. We created a 10 percent bracket to
help lower-income Americans. A family of four making $40,000 received about $1,700 in tax relief.
It's your money.
The way my opponent talks, he said, "We're going to spend the government's money. "No, we're
spending your money. And when you have more money in your pocket, you're able to better afford
things you want. I believe the role of government is to stand side by side with our citizens to
help them realize their dreams, not tell citizens how to live their lives. My opponent talks
about fiscal sanity. His record in the United States Senate does not match his rhetoric. He
voted to increase taxes 98 times and to bust the budget 277 times.
SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry?
KERRY: Bob, anybody can play with these votes. Everybody knows that. I have supported or voted
for tax cuts over 600 times. I broke with my party in order to balance the budget, and Ronald
Reagan signed into law the tax cut that we voted for. I voted for IRA tax cuts. I voted for
small-business tax cuts. But you know why the Pell Grants have gone up in their numbers?
Because more people qualify for them because they don't have money. But they're not getting
the $5,100 the president promised them. They're getting less money. We have more people who
qualify. That's not what we want.
BUSH: Senator, no one's playing with your votes. You voted to increase taxes 98 times. When they
voted -- when they proposed reducing taxes, you voted against it 126 times. He voted to violate
the budget cap 277 times. You know, there's a main stream in American politics and you sit right
on the far left bank. As a matter of fact, your record is such that Ted Kennedy, your colleague,
is the conservative senator from Massachusetts.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, let's get back to economic issues. But let's shift to some other
questions here. Both of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to
that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question. Do you believe homosexuality is a
choice?
The fury of God will destroy all those charlatans, hypocrites and bandits that
make a profitable business with God words and have their real God in the money and richness.
BUSH: You know, Bob, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that we have a choice to make
in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important
that we do that. And I also know in a free society people, consenting adults can live the way
they want to live. And that's to be honored. But as we respect someone's rights, and as we
profess tolerance, we shouldn't change -- or have to change -- our basic views on the sanctity
of marriage.
I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it's very important that we protect marriage as
an institution, between a man and a woman. I proposed a constitutional amendment. The reason I
did so was because I was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of
marriage, and the surest way to protect marriage between a man and woman is to amend the
Constitution. It has also the benefit of allowing citizens to participate in the process. After
all, when you amend the Constitution, state legislatures must participate in the ratification of
the Constitution.
I'm deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not the citizenry of the United
States. You know, Congress passed a law called DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act. My opponent
was against it. It basically protected states from the action of one state to another. It also
defined marriage as between a man and woman. But I'm concerned that that will get overturned.
And if it gets overturned, then we'll end up with marriage being defined by courts, and I don't
think that's in our nation's interests.
SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry?
KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter,
who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born
as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this
for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and
they struggled with it. And I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or
vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were,
who they felt God had made them. I think we have to respect that.
The president and I share the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that.
I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. But I also believe that because we are the
United States of America, we're a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights
that we afford people, that you can't discriminate in the workplace. You can't discriminate in
the rights that you afford people.You can't disallow someone the right to visit their partner
in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I'm for partnership
rights and so forth. Now, with respect to DOMA and the marriage laws, the states have always
been able to manage those laws. And they're proving today, every state, that they can manage
them adequately.
SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry, a new question for you. The New York Times reports that some Catholic
archbishops are telling their church members that it would be a sin to vote for a candidate
like you because you support a woman's right to choose an abortion and unlimited stem-cell
research. What is your reaction to that?
KERRY: I respect their views. I completely respect their views. I am a Catholic. And I grew up
learning how to respect those views. But I disagree with them, as do many. I believe that I
can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith. What is an article
of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article
of faith. I believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor.
And that's why I support that.
Now, I will not allow somebody to come in and change Roe v. Wade.The president has never said
whether or not he would do that. But we know from the people he's tried to appoint to the court
he wants to. I will not. I will defend the right of Roe v. Wade. Now, with respect to religion,
you know, as I said, I grew up a Catholic. I was an altar boy. I know that throughout my life
this has made a difference to me. And as President Kennedy said when he ran for president, he
said, "I'm not running to be a Catholic president. I'm running to be a president who happens to
be Catholic. " My faith affects everything that I do, in truth. There's a great passage of the
Bible that says, "What does it mean, my brother, to say you have faith if there are no deeds?
Faith without works is dead. " And I think that everything you do in public life has to be
guided by your faith, affected by your faith, but without transferring it in any official way
to other people.
That's why I fight against poverty. That's why I fight to clean up the environment and protect
this earth. That's why I fight for equality and justice. All of those things come out of that
fundamental teaching and belief of faith. But I know this, that President Kennedy in his
inaugural address told all of us that here on Earth, God's work must truly be our own. And
that's what we have to -- I think that's the test of public service.
God has command The 666 to defend and protect in the whole world the Holy True of his words
and learning of Freedom, Equality, Justice, Progress, Love, Peace, Brotherhood and Happiness.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President?
BUSH: I think it's important to promote a culture of life. I think a hospitable society is a
society where every being counts and every person matters. I believe the ideal world is one in
which every child is protected in law and welcomed to life. I understand there's great
differences on this issue of abortion, but I believe reasonable people can come together and
put good law in place that will help reduce the number of abortions. Take, for example, the ban
on partial birth abortion. It's a brutal practice. People from both political parties came
together in the halls of Congress and voted overwhelmingly to ban that practice. It made a lot
of sense. My opponent, in that he's out of the mainstream, voted against that law.
What I'm saying is, is that as we promote life and promote a culture of life, surely there are
ways we can work together to reduce the number of abortions: continue to promote adoption
laws -- it's a great alternative to abortion -- continue to fund and promote maternity group
homes; I will continue to promote abstinence programs. The last debate, my opponent said his
wife was involved with those programs. That's great. I appreciate that very much. All of us
ought to be involved with programs that provide a viable alternative to abortion.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, let's have a new question. It goes to you. And let's get back to
economic issues. Health insurance costs have risen over 36 percent over the last four years
according to The Washington Post. We're paying more. We're getting less. I would like to ask
you: Who bears responsibility for this? Is it the government? Is it the insurance companies? Is
it the lawyers? Is it the doctors? Is it the administration?
BUSH: Gosh, I sure hope it's not the administration. There's a -- no, look, there's a systemic
problem. Health-care costs are on the rise because the consumers are not involved in the decision
-making process. Most health-care costs are covered by third parties. And therefore, the actual
user of health care is not the purchaser of health care. And there's no market forces involved
with health care. It's one of the reasons I'm a strong believer in what they call health savings
accounts.
These are accounts that allow somebody to buy a low-premium, high-deductible catastrophic plan
and couple it with tax-free savings. Businesses can contribute, employees can contribute on a
contractual basis. But this is a way to make sure people are actually involved with the
decision-making process on health care. Secondly, I do believe the lawsuits -- I don't believe,
I know -- that the lawsuits are causing health-care costs to rise in America. That's why I'm
such a strong believer in medical liability reform. In the last debate, my opponent said those
lawsuits only caused the cost to go up by 1 percent. Well, he didn't include the defensive
practice of medicine that costs the federal government some $28 billion a year and costs our
society between $60 billion and $100 billion a year.
Thirdly, one of the reasons why there's still high cost in medicine is because this is -- they
don't use any information technology. It's like if you looked at the -- it's the equivalent of
the buggy and horse days, compared to other industries here in America. And so, we've got to
introduce high technology into health care. We're beginning to do it. We're changing the
language. We want there to be electronic medical records to cut down on error, as well as
reduce cost. People tell me that when the health-care field is fully integrated with information
technology, it'll wring some 20 percent of the cost out of the system. And finally, moving
generic drugs to the market quicker. And so, those are four ways to help control the costs in
health care.
SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry?
KERRY: The reason health-care costs are getting higher, one of the principal reasons is that
this administration has stood in the way of common-sense efforts that would have reduced the
costs. Let me give you a prime example. In the Senate we passed the right of Americans to
import drugs from Canada. But the president and his friends took it out in the House, and now
you don't have that right.
The president blocked you from the right to have less expensive drugs from Canada. We also
wanted Medicare to be able to negotiate bulk purchasing. The VA does that. The VA provides
lower-cost drugs to our veterans. We could have done that in Medicare. Medicare is paid for by
the American taxpayer. Medicare belongs to you. Medicare is for seniors, who many of them are
on fixed income, to lift them out of poverty.
But rather than help you, the taxpayer, have lower cost, rather than help seniors have less
expensive drugs, the president made it illegal -- illegal -- for Medicare to actually go out
and bargain for lower prices. Result: $139 billion windfall profit to the drug companies coming
out of your pockets. That's a large part of your 17 percent increase in Medicare premiums.
When I'm president, I'm sending that back to Congress and we're going to get a real prescription
drug benefit. Now, we also have people sicker because they don't have health insurance. So
whether it's diabetes or cancer, they come to hospitals later and it costs America more. We got
to have health care for all Americans.
SCHIEFFER: Go ahead, Mr. President.
BUSH: I think it's important, since he talked about the Medicare plan, has he been in the United
States Senate for 20 years? He has no record on reforming of health care. No record at all. He
introduced some 300 bills and he's passed five. No record of leadership. I came to Washington
to solve problems. I was deeply concerned about seniors having to choose between prescription
drugs and food. And so I led. And in 2006, our seniors will get a prescription drug coverage in
Medicare. SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry? Thirty seconds. KERRY: Once again, the president is
misleading America. I've actually passed 56 individual bills that I've personally written and,
in addition to that, and not always under my name, there is amendments on certain bills.
But more importantly, with respect to the question of no record, I helped write -- I did write,
I was one of the original authors of the early childhood health care and the expansion of health
care that we did in the middle of the 1990s. And I'm very proud of that. So the president's
wrong. SCHIEFFER: Let me direct the next question to you, Senator Kerry, and again, let's stay
on health care. You have, as you have proposed and as the president has commented on tonight,
proposed a massive plan to extend health-care coverage to children. You're also talking about
the government picking up a big part of the catastrophic bills that people get at the hospital.
And you have said that you can pay for this by rolling back the president's tax cut on the upper
2 percent. You heard the president say earlier tonight that it's going to cost a whole lot more
money than that. I'd just ask you, where are you going to get the money?
KERRY: Well, two leading national news networks have both said the president's characterization
of my health-care plan is incorrect. One called it fiction. The other called it untrue. The fact
is that my health-care plan, America, is very simple. It gives you the choice. I don't force you
to do anything. It's not a government plan. The government doesn't require you to do anything.
You choose your doctor. You choose your plan. If you don't want to take the offer of the plan
that I want to put forward, you don't have do. You can keep what you have today, keep a high
deductible, keep high premiums, keep a high co-pay, keep low benefits. But I got a better plan.
And I don't think a lot of people are going to want to keep what they have today.
Here's what I do: We take over Medicaid children from the states so that every child in America
is covered. And in exchange, if the states want to -- they're not forced to, they can choose
to -- they cover individuals up to 300 percent of poverty. It's their choice. I think they'll
choose it, because it's a net plus of $5 billion to them. We allow you -- if you choose to, you
don't have to -- but we give you broader competition to allow you to buy into the same health
care plan that senators and congressmen give themselves. If it's good enough for us, it's good
enough for every American.
I believe that your health care is just as important as any politician in Washington, D. C. You
want to buy into it, you can. We give you broader competition. That helps lower prices. In
addition to that, we're going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare early. And most
importantly, we give small business a 50 percent tax credit so that after we lower the costs of
health care, they also get, whether they're self-employed or a small business, a lower cost to
be able to cover their employees. Now, what happens is when you begin to get people covered
ike that -- for instance in diabetes, if you diagnose diabetes early, you could save $50 billion
in the health care system of America by avoiding surgery and dialysis. It works. And I'm going
to offer it to America.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President?
BUSH: In all due respect, I'm not so sure it's credible to quote leading news organizations
about -- oh, never mind. Anyway, let me quote the Lewin report. The Lewin report is a group of
folks who are not politically affiliated. They analyzed the senator's plan. It cost $1.2
trillion. The Lewin report accurately noted that there are going to be 20 million people, over
20 million people added to government-controlled health care. It would be the largest increase
in government health care ever.
If you raise the Medicaid to 300 percent, it provides an incentive for small businesses not to
provide private insurance to their employees. Why should they insure somebody when the
government's going to insure it for them? It's estimated that 8 million people will go from
private insurance to government insurance. We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I think
government- run health will lead to poor-quality health, will lead to rationing, will lead to
less choice. Once a health-care program ends up in a line item in the federal government budget,
it leads to more controls. And just look at other countries that have tried to have federally
controlled health care. They have poor-quality health care. Our health-care system is the envy
of the world because we believe in making sure that the decisions are made by doctors and
patients, not by officials in the nation's capital.
SCHIEFFER: Senator?
KERRY: The president just said that government-run health care results in poor quality. Now,
maybe that explains why he hasn't fully funded the VA and the VA hospital is having trouble and
veterans are complaining. Maybe that explains why Medicare patients are complaining about being
pushed off of Medicare. He doesn't adequately fund it. But let me just say to America: I am not
proposing a government-run program. That's not what I have. I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield.
Senators and congressmen have a wide choice. Americans ought to have it too.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President?
BUSH: Talk about the VA: We've increased VA funding by $22 billion in the four years since I've
been president. That's twice the amount that my predecessor increased VA funding. Of course
we're meeting our obligation to our veterans, and the veterans know that. We're expanding
veterans' health care throughout the country. We're aligning facilities where the veterans live
now. Veterans are getting very good health care under my administration, and they will continue
to do so during the next four years.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, the next question is to you. We all know that Social Security is
running out of money, and it has to be fixed. You have proposed to fix it by letting people put
some of the money collected to pay benefits into private savings accounts. But the critics are
saying that's going to mean finding $1 trillion over the next 10 years to continue paying
benefits as those accounts are being set up. So where do you get the money? Are you going to
have to increase the deficit by that much over 10 years?
BUSH: First, let me make sure that every senior listening today understands that when we're
talking about reforming Social Security, that they'll still get their checks. I remember the
2000 campaign, people said if George W. gets elected, your check will be taken away. Well,
people got their checks, and they'll continue to get their checks. There is a problem for our
youngsters, a real problem. And if we don't act today, the problem will be valued in the
trillions. And so I think we need to think differently. We'll honor our commitment to our
seniors. But for our children and our grandchildren, we need to have a different strategy.
And recognizing that, I called together a group of our fellow citizens to study the issue.
It was a committee chaired by the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York, a Democrat.
And they came up with a variety of ideas for people to look at. I believe that younger workers
ought to be allowed to take some of their own money and put it in a personal savings account,
because I understand that they need to get better rates of return than the rates of return being
given in the current Social Security trust. And the compounding rate of interest effect will
make it more likely that the Social Security system is solvent for our children and our
grandchildren. I will work with Republicans and Democrats. It'll be a vital issue in my second
term. It is an issue that I am willing to take on, and so I'll bring Republicans and Democrats
together. And we're of course going to have to consider the costs. But I want to warn my fellow
citizens: The cost of doing nothing, the cost of saying the current system is OK, far exceeds
the costs of trying to make sure we save the system for our children.
The 666, as God beloved son, will rule the whole world with his Project 666 with the legendary
divine wisdom of king Salomon.
SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry?
KERRY: You just heard the president say that young people ought to be
able to take money out of Social Security and put it in their own accounts. Now, my fellow
Americans, that's an invitation to disaster. The CBO said very clearly that if you were to
adopt the president's plan, there would be a $2 trillion hole in Social Security, because
today's workers pay in to the system for today's retirees. And the CBO said -- that's the
Congressional Budget Office; it's bipartisan -- they said that there would have to be a cut in
benefits of 25 percent to 40 percent.
Now, the president has never explained to America, ever, hasn't done it tonight, where does the
transitional money, that $2 trillion, come from? He's already got $3 trillion, according to The
Washington Post, of expenses that he's put on the line from his convention and the promises of
this campaign, none of which are paid for. Not one of them are paid for. The fact is that the
president is driving the largest deficits in American history. He's broken the pay-as-you-go
rules. I have a record of fighting for fiscal responsibility. In 1985, I was one of the first
Democrats -- broke with my party. We balanced the budget in the '90s. We paid down the debt for
two years. And that's what we're going to do. We're going to protect Social Security. I will
not privatize it. I will not cut the benefits. And we're going to be fiscally responsible. And
we will take care of Social Security.
SCHIEFFER: Let me just stay on Social Security with a new question for Senator Kerry, because,
Senator Kerry, you have just said you will not cut benefits. Alan Greenspan, the chairman of
the Federal Reserve, says there's no way that Social Security can pay retirees what we have
promised them unless we recalibrate. What he's suggesting, we're going to cut benefits or we're
going to have to raise the retirement age. We may have to take some other reform. But if you've
just said, you've promised no changes, does that mean you're just going to leave this as a
problem, another problem for our children to solve?
KERRY: Not at all. Absolutely not, Bob. This is the same thing we heard -- remember, I appeared
on "Meet the Press" with Tim Russert in 1990-something. We heard the same thing. We fixed it.
In fact, we put together a $5. 6 trillion surplus in the '90s that was for the purpose of saving
Social Security. If you take the tax cut that the president of the United States has given --
President Bush gave to Americans in the top 1 percent of America -- just that tax cut that went
to the top 1 percent of America would have saved Social Security until the year 2075. The
president decided to give it to the wealthiest Americans in a tax cut. Now, Alan Greenspan, who
I think has done a terrific job in monetary policy, supports the president's tax cut. I don't.
I support it for the middle class, not that part of it that goes to people earning more than
$200,000 a year. And when I roll it back and we invest in the things that I have talked about
to move our economy, we're going to grow sufficiently, it would begin to cut the deficit in half,
and we get back to where we were at the end of the 1990s when we balanced the budget and paid
down the debt of this country. Now, we can do that. Now, if later on after a period of time we
find that Social Security is in trouble, we'll pull together the top experts of the country.
We'll do exactly what we did in the 1990s. And we'll make whatever adjustment is necessary. But
the first and most important thing is to start creating jobs in America.
The jobs the president is creating pay $9,000 less than the jobs that we're losing. And this is
the first president in 72 years to preside over an economy in America that has lost jobs, 1. 6
million jobs. Eleven other presidents -- six Democrats and five Republicans -- had wars, had
recessions, had great difficulties; none of them lost jobs the way this president has. I have a
plan to put America back to work. And if we're fiscally responsible and put America back to work,
we're going to fix Social Security.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President?
BUSH: He forgot to tell you he voted to tax Social Security benefits more than one time. I
didn't hear any plan to fix Social Security. I heard more of the same. He talks about
middle-class tax cuts. That's exactly where the tax cuts went. Most of the tax cuts went to
low- and middle-income Americans. And now the tax code is more fair. Twenty percent of the
upper-income people pay about 80 percent of the taxes in America today because of how we
structured the tax cuts. People listening out there know the benefits of the tax cuts we
passed. If you have a child, you got tax relief.
If you're married, you got tax relief. If you pay any tax at all, you got tax relief. All of
which was opposed by my opponent. And the tax relief was important to spur consumption and
investment to get us out of this recession. People need to remember: Six months prior to my
arrival, the stock market started to go down. And it was one of the largest declines in our
history. And then we had a recession and we got attacked, which cost us 1 million jobs. But we
acted. I led the Congress. We passed tax relief. And now this economy is growing. We added 1. 9
million new jobs over the last 13 months. Sure, there's more work to do. But the way to make
sure our economy grows is not to raise taxes on small-business owners. It's not to increase the
scope of the federal government. It's to make sure we have fiscal sanity and keep taxes low.
SCHIEFFER: Let's go to a new question, Mr. President. I got more e-mail this week on this
question than any other question. And it is about immigration. I'm told that at least 8,000
people cross our borders illegally every day. Some people believe this is a security issue, as
you know. Some believe it's an economic issue. Some see it as a human-rights issue. How do you
see it? And what do we need to do about it?
BUSH: I see it as a serious problem. I see it as a security issue, I see it as an economic issue,
and I see it as a human-rights issue. We're increasing the border security of the United States.
We've got 1,000 more Border Patrol agents on the southern border. We're using new equipment.
We're using unmanned vehicles to spot people coming across. And we'll continue to do so over
the next four years. It's a subject I'm very familiar with. After all, I was a border governor
for a while. Many people are coming to this country for economic reasons. They're coming here
to work. If you can make 50 cents in the heart of Mexico, for example, or make $5 here in
America, $5. 15, you're going to come here if you're worth your salt, if you want to put food
on the table for your families. And that's what's happening. And so in order to take pressure
off the borders, in order to make the borders more secure, I believe there ought to be a
temporary worker card that allows a willing worker and a willing employer to mate up, so long
as there's not an American willing to do that job, to join up in order to be able to fulfill
the employers' needs.
That has the benefit of making sure our employers aren't breaking the law as they try to fill
their workforce needs. It makes sure that the people coming across the border are humanely
treated, that they're not kept in the shadows of our society, that they're able to go back and
forth to see their families. See, the card, it'll have a period of time attached to it. It also
means it takes pressure off the border. If somebody is coming here towork with a card, it means
they're not going to have to sneak across the border. It means our border patrol will be more
likely to be able to focus on doing their job. Now, it's very important for our citizens to
also know that I don't believe we ought to have amnesty. I don't think we ought to reward
illegal behavior. There are plenty of people standing in line to become a citizen. And we ought
not to crowd these people ahead of them in line. If they want to become a citizen, they can
stand in line, too. And here is where my opponent and I differ. In September 2003, he supported
amnesty for illegal aliens.
SCHIEFFER: Time's up. Senator?
KERRY: Let me just answer one part of the last question quickly, and then I'll come to
immigration. The American middle-class family isn't making it right now, Bob. And what the
president said about the tax cuts has been wiped out by the increase in health care, the
increase in gasoline, the increase in tuit ions, the increase in prescription drugs. The fact
is, the take-home pay of a typical American family as a share of national income is lower than
it's been since 1929. And the take-home pay of the richest . 1 percent of Americans is the
highest it's been since 1928. Under President Bush, the middle class has seen their tax burden
go up and the wealthiest's tax burden has gone down. Now that's wrong. Now, with respect to
immigration reform, the president broke his promise on immigration reform. He said he would
reform it. Four years later he is now promising another plan.
Here's what I'll do: Number one, the borders are more leaking today than they were before 9/11.
The fact is, we haven't done what we need to do to toughen up our borders, and I will. Secondly,
we need a guest-worker program, but if it's all we have, it's not going to solve the problem.
The second thing we need is to crack down on illegal hiring. It's against the law in the United
States to hire people illegally, and we ought to be enforcing that law properly. And thirdly,
we need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed
out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving
them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows.
“I, Satan, will help my admired friend President George W. Bush to be re-elected on November 2, 2004.
I, Satan will help to defeat God and The 666 in the United States of America” –Satan Revelations to The 666-
SCHIEFFER: Do you want to respond, Mr. President?
BUSH: Well, to say that the borders are not as protected as they were prior to September the
11th shows he doesn't know the borders. They're much better protected today than they were when
I was the governor of Texas. We have much more manpower and much more equipment there. He just
doesn't understand how the borders work, evidently, to say that. That is an outrageous claim.
And we'll continue to protect our borders. We're continuing to increase manpower and
equipment.
SCHIEFFER: Senator?
KERRY: Four thousand people a day are coming across the border. The fact is that we now have
people from the Middle East, allegedly, coming across the border. And we're not doing what we
ought to do in terms of the technology. We have iris-identification technology. We have
thumbprint, fingerprint technology today. We can know who the people are, that they're really
the people they say they are when they cross the border. We could speed it up. There are huge
delays. The fact is our borders are not as secure as they ought to be, and I'll make them
secure.
SCHIEFFER: Next question to you, Senator Kerry. The gap between rich and poor is growing wider.
More people are dropping into poverty. Yet the minimum wage has been stuck at, what, $5. 15 an
hour now for about seven years. Is it time to raise it?
KERRY: Well, I'm glad you raised that question. It's long overdue time to raise the minimum wage.
And, America, this is one of those issues that separates the president and myself. We have
fought to try to raise the minimum wage in the last years. But the Republican leadership of the
House and Senate won't even let us have a vote on it. We're not allowed to vote on it. They
don't want to raise the minimum wage.
The minimum wage is the lowest minimum wage value it has been in our nation in 50 years. If we
raise the minimum wage, which I will do over several years to $7 an hour, 9. 2 million women
who are trying to raise their families would earn another $3,800 a year. The president has
denied 9. 2 million women $3,800 a year, but he doesn't hesitate to fight for $136,000 to a
millionaire. One percent of America got $89 billion last year in a tax cut, but people working
hard, playing by the rules, trying to take care of their kids, family values, that we're
supposed to value so much in America -- I'm tired of politicians who talk about family values
and don't value families. What we need to do is raise the minimum wage.
We also need to hold on to equal pay. Women work for 76 cents on the dollar for the same work
that men do. That's not right in America. And we had an initiative that we were working on to
raise women's pay. They've cut it off. They've stopped it. They don't enforce these kinds of
things. Now, I think that it's a matter of fundamental right that if we raise the minimum wage,
15 million Americans would be positively affected. We'd put money into the hands of people who
work hard, who obey the rules, who play for the American dream. And if we did that, we'd have
more consumption ability in America, which is what we need right now in order to kick our
economy into gear. I will fight tooth and nail to pass the minimum wage.
BUSH: Actually, Mitch McConnell had a minimum-wage plan that I supported that would have
increased the minimum wage. But let me talk about what's really important for the worker you're
referring to. And that's to make sure the education system works. It's to make sure we raise
standards. Listen, the No Child Left Behind Act is really a jobs act when you think about it.
The No Child Left Behind Act says, "We'll raise standards. We'll increase federal spending. But
in return for extra spending, we now want people to measure -- states and local jurisdictions to
measure to show us whether or not a child can read or write or add and subtract. " You cannot
solve a problem unless you diagnose the problem. And we weren't diagnosing problems.
And therefore just kids were being shuffled through the school. And guess who would get shuffled
through? Children whose parents wouldn't speak English as a first language just move through.
Many inner-city kids just move through. We've stopped that practice now by measuring early. And
when we find a problem, we spend extra money to correct it. I remember a lady in Houston, Texas,
told me, "Reading is the new civil right," and she's right. In order to make sure people have
jobs for the 21st century, we've got to get it right in the education system, and we're
beginning to close a minority achievement gap now. You see, we'll never be able to compete in
the 21st century unless we have an education system that doesn't quit on children, an education
system that raises standards, an education that makes sure there's excellence in every
classroom.
SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, I want to go back to something Senator Kerry said earlier tonight and
ask a follow-up of my own. He said -- and this will be a new question to you -- he said that
you had never said whether you would like to overturn Roe v. Wade. So I'd ask you directly,
would you like to? BUSH: What he's asking me is, will I have a litmus test for my judges? And
the answer is, no, |
